Summary – What’s It All About?
💥 This episode is a case study of how one podcast guest could be leveraging guesting to gain access to ever bigger media exposure, to establish credibility as a go-to authority for the media, and to start a professional speaking career
the advice that I would give [is to] to parlay all of the elements of her story, get them honed and refined into a great story and get really strategic about what you need – what are the stepping stones you need to have in place, what audiences. what shows, what hosts do you need to be working with to build your podcast guesting portfolio, and gradually be transitioning to bigger and bigger things.September Smith, Host, Podcast Guesting for Business Growth
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0:00 – The Case Study Episode
In this episode of the podcast, I’m going to be doing a case study on a woman that was actually a guest on my She’s All That video podcast. And this is a woman who is using podcast guesting to further her career. And I want to get into the strategy and get into the potential for her and how she could be using this to really make this work for her.
0:24 – The Background
The person I’m talking about is RMalone, and a little bit of background on her. RMalone was a cop. She was a police officer in Scotland. In Edinburgh. She was a police officer for eight years and the eight year nine year mark, they came to her recognizing her skills and her professionalism as a cop and invited her to join the firearm service. And, again, a little more background. Unlike in North America, cops in the UK police officers do not carry guns. That’s not just something that they are allowed to do. You have to be chosen and specially trained to be given that privilege. Other cops are having to use their skills to negotiate and human to human interaction to de escalate and to deal with police issues in society.
1:11 – The Problem
So eight nine years in RMalone was invited to be a member of the team. They said to her, right at the outset, one of the reasons, aside from her her proven skills, her record, and her high level of proficiency and professionalism as a police officer, was that they were on a mission to create a firearms services, to recreate it in a way that was more equitable, more diverse. They realized the error of their ways. Probably that would have been pointed out to them from previous issues that have come up. And they were now striving to change to make necessary change. And that included bringing more women into that arm of the service. So believing what they told her which was you know, we will support you we realize you’re a minority, we’ll protect you. They were inviting other women and other minor minorities. Women are not a minority in society, but they are in that traditionally masculine setting.
2:10 – Her Legal Battle
So RMalone went through with everyone else, the highly rigorous, highly demanding training required to become a member of the firearm service and was successful. And as time went on, and she was working within that service, believing that her role was both to be a police officer to be a firearm specialist, but also to be helping with change and evolving the service into a better version of itself. That was what they told her she was there for when she would give feedback when she would give her impressions of things or suggestions of how things could be improved. It didn’t always go as well. Suffice it to say things escalated, it got out of hand. She had her back pushed to the wall, and she pushed back and little did she know that when she pushed back she was going to end up in a what turned out to be a three year battle through an employment tribunal a legal body but unlike in North America, when you take something to court, there are no damages. There’s no financial prize at the end.
3:07 – Her Impact
RMalone fought for three years. And what this did was this has created a change within that police force that has been recognized the need for change and problems that have been recognized that need to be addressed to the very highest office of the land in Scotland. The leader of Scotland, the equivalent to our president or prime minister called the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon of Scotland stood up in their house of government and commended RMalone for what she did and what she is exposed and the work that needs to happen.
3:37 – What She Lost
However, in that three year battle, RMalone, not only last a career that she was passionate about that she was highly dedicated to, and that she saw herself continuing in for the rest of her life. And she she had lost her career she had lost all of the friends and the community and the work family that she had had there. Financially, she lost financial well being. She ended up having her heavily in debt. She lost her health, she lost her emotional well being. After all those years. RMalone has, she’s gone to school and she’s created another business for herself. She’s in a whole other line of work. But RMalone has played a pivotal role in a very important event at this point of history in Scotland in the UK, because in fact her story has been picked up by all of the largest most reputable most respected media outlets in the UK repeatedly over the course of this three year battle.
4:34 – The Potential in What She Gained
She has incredible media cred right now. She has the interest; her story is fantastic. If you want to see more about the story as I said she was a guest on my she’s all that podcast. Her story is incredible. She also has the opportunity right now and I would highly recommend that she go that way if if she sees that as something that she wants to do. She’s already sacrificed a lot. She has the opportunity to create either a full time or part time speaking career for herself, she has an important story, she has an important perspective that needs to be heard and needs to be part of the conversation for this ongoing social change. But it is not that easy to jump from being a police officer and then somebody who has come out of exhaustedly, come out of a three year battle, fighting for their reputation for a cause they believe in for justice, and suddenly just bounce onto the stage.
5:28 – A Strategic Start
If you don’t have the background in public speaking, that’s quite possibly more of a challenge than most people are up to. But what RMalone is already doing and that’s really, as far as I’m concerned, that’s a really clever start. She’s using podcast guesting to get her story out. But she’s doing it very strategically. And I commend her for that. My podcast was just the second podcast that she had told her story on. She had just won her case, some months before they was finally finalized just before actually, I think after we had already decided that we would do an interview and create an episode. Her case was decided she was victorious.
6:07 – Laying the Groundwork
Prior to that, when it was still in action, but she was obviously no longer going to be a member of the police force. She had done an interview with a podcast called, I believe it’s Blue Light Leavers. And it’s a podcast all about police officers, cops that leave the service. It’s International, they have guests talking about their story from all over the world. But that podcast has the audience of either police officers, ex police officers, potentially people are interested in overhauling a police force, or just interested citizens who follow this kind of information. So she has gotten her story from that perspective of why did you leave what was involved in, you know, in the backdrop of other stories of police officers who leave their career. So she’s talking to that audience. And she’s also, by being a guest, establishing her credibility amongst those players and in that field, and that this phenomenon has happened to her.
So she’s establishing credibility over there. In my podcast that focus on that was all about the person, the woman, her story, how it unfolded, what it all means in the greater context, in this case of of a societal issue, a systemic problem, that as a society, we all need to be paying attention to and doing something about, or at least getting our political representatives to do something about. She got her story out that way. But we also saw what she achieved through her battle through her efforts, and what needs to change and the role she played in it. So by being on my podcast, and it’s a podcast, where it’s strictly – the stage is open – I am there strictly to talk about the guests and their story. We don’t intersperse it with any other stories, it was a nice place for her, a stage for her to be speaking about her story, supported and scaffolded by questions asked by a host. In this case, me.
She now has two pieces of content. In both cases, mine in particular, we do a big social media push when an episode drops. And we are on four platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. We’re posting about her story snippets from her story quotes from her story, the relevance of it, drawing attention to the fact that it had been noticed in the highest offices land in in addition had also been picked up by the highest levels of media in the UK. We also use hashtags and and tagged Police Scotland and other people involved. So literally 1000s of people came to RMalone’s pages to read more about the story. We had great downloads on the podcast, and her stories.
Now getting out there, even if people didn’t listen to the podcast, the fact that you were on a podcast kind of gives an elevated lift to the status of your story is not just you posting something, it’s a story being told about you an interview, you’re being given the stage of authority, and someone is asking you to tell your story. And then it’s being broadcast, whether or not there’s actually any real significant elevated value in that. That’s not the point. People perceive it as having greater value. And her story gained a whole lot of traction. And we don’t know whether or not there was a correlation. But during the week that we were doing all of this heavy posting about this, the chief inspector for Police Scotland, finally after seven weeks, got around to issuing a formal apology. So of course that then garnered even more media.
If RMalone wants to use this, and I think she should be using podcast guesting to move towards a speaking career. And what I see for her is next steps that she can work towards. I think she should be on something like a TEDx or you know, even TED Talk stage. She has a compelling story. She has a great way of telling YOUR Story, she’s got a great physical presence. So being on the stage for her is is, I think an attainable goal. But in future, I see her being a player in the conversation because we all in this situation, we need all voices at the table. And she has a unique experience and a unique perspective on this issue. And really, she has two choices at this point in history. She can walk away from this episode with everything that has unfolded from this and all of the attention and all the digital credibility that she’s gained from this, she could walk away and she would be a footnote. If anybody ever read down deep enough in in reports of how this all rolled out, 10 years from now that they’re looking back at 2021. This happened RMalone would be a footnote.
However, RMalone really should not be a footnote, she should be an active voice as we go forward in the future, commenting on this, being there to testify to give her perspective, to speak from the stage and be the person that voice on a panel. We’ve had in particular, because this is a police issue. We’ve far too often had males commenting on it because it is predominantly a male occupation. To date, we’ve had males commenting on the problem of toxic masculinity, in entities such as the police force, we need to have a woman’s voice there, we need to have somebody who’s not just looking at it as a woman, but as somebody who has been deeply personally impacted by this.
I see her with the future having a part time full time or part time speaking career, speaking from the stage, speaking on panels, being somebody that the media goes to, and continuing from now an external role in the evolution of the police force. To do that.
One of the most important things RMalone needs to do right now is be super strategic, about what media she is involving herself in and what she’s creating. When you are doing podcast guesting, when you’re doing any kind of speaking, and especially something that is higher profile, and what gives podcast guest in that higher profile isn’t necessarily that it is on a big stage. It’s the longevity of the medium. Your episodes on podcast guessing because podcasts are broadcast media, that media has a lifespan that can be measured in years instead of minutes or hours, like other social media.
So she needs and and other people need to always think of this in terms of this is content that’s going to be out there found and representative of who I am, be it right or wrong. for years to come. She needs to be very careful. And look at this in terms of reputation management. Your reputation; we are known by the company we keep – that old saying. If she is to not be selective when she chooses to go on podcast because it now after kind of the the wave of interest and the eyes that have been on our case, she’s starting to receive other invitations to be on podcast, some of them might be fantastic opportunities for her. And they might further this agenda towards a speaking career or a larger speaking role in the social dialogue on police reform.
However, if she is on a podcast that doesn’t focus in an appropriate way on the topic, or skews the focus, or has a host who doesn’t either handle the conversation in a professional sort of manner, with a generosity towards telling her story and focusing only on her, you have to know what 2.5 million podcasts out there. There are a lot of podcast hosts that are –
Most of us (podcast hosts) are not professional interviewers. But a lot of them are out there doing their podcast for their own further meant and their own agenda. And when they have a guest on, it’s not always to just very generously tell that guest’s story. A lot of times they want to elevate their story, they want to – a very old saying – hitch their wagon to the star of that person that they’ve got on there. And well, you can’t blame them. They’re being strategic about their show.
But that is not the kind of show for someone who is conscious about reputation management and where they’re taking this being very strategic about how they’re building towards something greater. That’s not the kind of show that you want to be on. So at this point, my recommendation would be that RMalone is very, very selective about the shows that she goes on.
She should also be looking at it in terms of who are the hosts and who are the teams. Were the companies behind some of these shows? Who does she wants to align herself? Who does she want to ally herself with? That’s going to position her appropriately for where it is she wants to go with this speaking opportunity. So once she knows what kind of shows there’s a couple of different kinds of shows she wants to be on. Like I’ve said one of them got her in front of an audience that is giving her credibility and introducing her to an audience that pays attention to issues like police reform and why police officers might lead the force. Mine is more just telling her Story laying the facts out there and looking at it in terms of the individual, almost a David and Goliath story. She wants to be very strategic and find other contexts, other shows, and audiences that she knows are going to work that she needs to get in front of that she needs to connect yourself with.
So it becomes like stepping stones to where it is that she wants to go and get higher and higher media. In the meantime, while she’s doing that, I would also if she was one of my clients, and I was coaching her, I would also highly recommend that she go even deeper, and hone her story and her talking points. When I did the interview with her. I did a pre call with her. We formed it up, I wanted to know what are her goals we so we helped kind of establish roughly what her goals were. With that, what was the background, what were all the factors involved, and therefore, what was the narrative arc we needed to have in that story, I kind of helped her put that structure in there. That’s not always going to happen.
She needs to have a more finely honed and refined story, how she puts her message out there. And I would also suggest that she perhaps looks at as I had mentioned, TED or TEDx, I would also suggest that maybe she get herself a coach that can help her navigate her way towards speaking from the stage speaking from the TEDx stage, or even a TED talk. And strategically, step by step, look at this almost like a chess match or chess game, what moves she needs to take to parlay what she has right now, in her corner,
When you take an accounting of what she’s looking at, she’s got to a small degree, fame, she’s got recognition, she’s got commendation, from the very highest office of the land there, she’s a major player in a story that is just unfolded about a very important issue that requires reform within a society. It’s very topical. And she’s got media credibility, right now, she needs to protect all that. And she needs to parlay that into bigger and bigger speaking opportunities. Podcast guesting can help you get there. And then can be this staircase that gets you onto the stages and gets you the recognition and gets you the connections with the people that you should be connected with.
In this case that RMalone should be connected with, that is going to help her build a career, part time or full time, as a professional speaker on this very, very important topic. Some people – if you look at this and say she’s exploiting an opportunity, or she’s just opportunist, this is a woman who gave up three years of her life, to fight a battle that most of us would not have had the energy, the guts or the resilience to have carried on with. She’s not an opportunist, she’s, she’s lost so much.
But this has positioned her to now turn that around and make something great out of that it’s not only going to benefit her and so she deserves to benefit. That’s another weird thing sometimes how people think that women don’t deserve to benefit from any kind of crisis or any kind of situation like this. Damn right, she does.
And that the advice that I would get for somebody like RMalone, to parlay all of the elements of her story, get them honed and refined into a great story and get really strategic about what you need, what are the stepping stones you need to have in place, and therefore what audiences what shows what host you need to be working with to build your podcast guesting portfolio, and gradually be transitioning from that.
As I’ve mentioned before, some of the biggest A-listers in the world, from world leaders to celebrities, to politicians to CEOs, still are using podcast guesting as part of their media mix. But it can then build up her speaking credibility to a point where she can be on the biggest stages and on the biggest TV shows. And she deserves that.
One other thing that RMalone should be doing that is unique to her situation. Not all business people will need or want to do this. RMalone should be keeping her connections with the journalists that have covered her so sympathetically and so compassionately to date. Make sure she keeps a good relationship with them. Because that they have covered these stories. Now, there’s a fairly good chance that in the future, they’re going to continue to be looking at these stories. They know her now, she wants to keep a good relationship with them both for future media coverage, but also they will be the people that are also involved covering the stories as as the the issue, hopefully the issue of police reform and Police Scotland actually is tackled. And as as things move forward with that, she remains Top of Mind with them as that go-to person who can speak to this issue. Also for in the future, if she wants to get her press releases out or she has something that she wants to put out there. Having those relationships and those connections is a valuable thing for her to maintain at this point.
So that’s just my analysis of a case study of how one woman could be building her business From podcasts guesting. This is a kind of analysis that I do with clients when they come to me and they know that they want to use podcast guesting and leverage it – leverage the power of podcasts and the potential in that to grow their business, whether in this case, it’s a speaking business, or you want to get out there and get in front of the right audiences and tap into new audiences, new demographics, connect with and collaborate with new business people, hosts, teams, and open yourself up to newer and bigger opportunities. I do this kind of analysis, obviously, much deeper. We plot it out. And what I do with my clients is we figure out what that story is, that refined, honed brand story that you need to tell on your podcast. When you speak from the stage, your sound bites, the messaging you need to get out there so that you’re known for what it is that you’re an expert in the shows that you need to be on, the audience’s you need to be in front of, how you need to pitch those shows, because that is key. If you don’t know how to pitch, you’re not going to get booked. And you’re not going to be able to use that stage to get your voice out. How to sound and look like a rock star when you’re being interviewed, and then what to do with it (your interview), the social media campaign and how to use that content on an ongoing basis so that you really make it work for you. If you’re interested in exploring that for you, book a call. That’s what I love doing with people for now. Thanks for listening and take care
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Hi – I’m September Smith
With 15+ years experience with online tech & tools, audio/video media, and growing your business, I help entrepreneurs learn how to use media opportunities like podcast guesting to rapidly build their brand.
Whether it’s to grow your speaking career, to get more widely known, or to better position yourself as the authority you really are – strategic podcast guesting is a savvy move. I can help you figure out your best strategy and get you rapidly and effectively launched leveraging this powerful medium.